But I am not surprised.
John Piper has been saying it long and loud in a myriad of ways. In his universe, where Christianity is essentially masculine and God has appointed only men to leadership both inside and outside the church, and has appointed women to the joyful task of following, it is only logical that women should not be seminary professors. He clarifies,
"Just to be clear, the issue is not whether women should attend seminary in one of its programs and get the best biblical grounding possible. The issue is whether women should be models, mentors, and teachers for those preparing for a role that is biblically designed for spiritual men."In other words, women can attend seminary, but since seminaries are designed for training men for pastoral ministry, all the professors should be men. He goes on to say,
"If it is unbiblical to have women as pastors, how can it be biblical to have women who function in formal teaching and mentoring capacities to train and fit pastors for the very calling from which the mentors themselves are excluded? I don’t think that works."I appreciate Piper's logical consistency. But is he right? All three of his premises deserve comment.
1. Is Christianity Essentially Masculine?
I can't get away from passages that compare Yahweh to a nursing mother (Isa 45:19) or say that God has given birth (Deut 32:18). Notice how fluidly the prophet moves between masculine and feminine imagery for God in Isaiah 42:13-14. Even Jesus compares himself to a mother hen protecting her chicks (Matt 23:27). These are metaphors, of course, so they don't make God female any more than speaking of him using masculine pronouns makes him male. But even Paul is not above using feminine metaphors for his own ministry! See 1 Thess 2:7. Why, then, must Piper privilege masculine modes of talking about the spiritual life? Are the passages that use feminine imagery for the life of faith somehow less accurate? I think not.
2. Is It Unbiblical to Have Women Pastors?
I used to think so. Thanks to male college and seminary professors who patiently showed me the biblical and theological case for women in pastoral ministry, I changed my mind. I feel no need to reproduce here the excellent arguments for why women can teach and preach in the church and can exercise their pastoral and leadership gifts. A good starting place is Alice Mathews' new book, Gender Roles and the People of God. She deals with all the key passages well. You might also appreciate the autobiographical approach of How I Changed My Mind about Women in Leadership. For those of you who are getting nervous, consider this: To conclude that women can teach and preach does not necessitate the abandonment of conservative exegesis. I teach at a 95-year-old Canadian institution that has been unabashedly conservative since it's founding, but which has also had women teaching Bible to men since 1923.
3. Should Women Be Seminary Professors?
This question follows closely on the heels of the previous one. If women may serve in church leadership, or at least as teachers, then my answer is yes. Michael Bird has made a good case for why women in seminary need women professors, as role models, as advocates, as encouragers. He has listened well to the women in his circles, and I am grateful. But he left something crucial unsaid:
Men need women as seminary professors, too.
Female students are not the only ones who benefit from having female professors (in seminary or at any level). Male students benefit. Male colleagues benefit. I believe it is critically important for men to hear a women's perspective in the classroom. Having an intelligent woman at the podium calls into question the ill-formed assumptions of students -- both male and female -- who might have thought that anything and everything worth knowing about comes from men. Young male pastors who meet brilliant and articulate women in seminary will be far less likely to overlook them in their churches. They will be far more likely to encourage young women to cultivate their gifts of leadership and invest in education.
Several years ago I watched a powerful documentary that argued this thesis: if we want to break the cycle of poverty, the key is to educate women. In developing nations all over the world, the education of women is a game changer. Educated women make sure their own children -- both sons and daughters -- know how to read. Sons of educated mothers don't fall prey to the lie that women are only useful in the kitchen or in the bedroom. The same is true in seminary.
It seems to me that having female professors goes a long way toward breaking a cycle of gender disparity in church leadership. Not only does it model for female students that female leadership is possible (which in itself is critically important), but it models this for men as well.
Thank you for your message and balanced response. However- I think you misrepresent Piper and make some not so subtle accusations that he is not guilty of.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all - I do hope you understand that Piper is against MEN teaching in his seminary if they do not have pastoral experience. So - his position is not primarily against women, but really against any seminary professor who is not or has not been a pastor. Of course- since in his understanding of Scriptures women cannot be pastors, they should also not be teaching in a seminary to train men for ministry - despite their competence and intelligence which he acknowledges.
Second. I do not understand your point 1. Did Piper ever say that Christianity is essentially masculine? Do you think he does not know that God is described in both masculine and feminine terms?
The following comments are unfair to Piper, and I recommend you correct:
"Having an intelligent woman at the podium calls into question the ill-formed assumptions of students -- both male and female -- who might have thought that anything and everything worth knowing about comes from men."
I can bet that Piper and many (if not most) of his followers would not agree with that statement. You are at least implying that he would.
"Sons of educated mothers don't fall prey to the lie that women are only useful in the kitchen or in the bedroom."
Are you suggesting that Piper believes that women are useful only in the kitchen or bedroom? I hope not!
I disagree with Piper's view on women in seminary, though I completely understand his point (he wants his future pastors to be trained by scholars-pastors!).
However - I do believe that you understand that his position is based on how he understands the Scripture. He is actually a humble person, though he will stand his ground when he thinks that he understood and interpreted Scripture correctly (and that usually comes across as arrogant).
I think you should be gracious enough not to characterize him as a man who thinks women have nothing worthy to say etc. It is just not fair.
Thank you for your comment. I apologize for not responding promptly. (Somehow I didn't see it until now.) I will respond to each of your points in order.
DeleteFirst, I think you are probably correct that pastoral qualifications are the driving force behind Piper's recent statements. However, he is clear elsewhere that women should not serve in ANY capacity where it is part of their duty to give directives to men (pastoral or otherwise) because it violates what he sees as God's intended design for biblical manhood and womanhood. (Google "John Piper Woman Police Officer" and his discussion of this should come up).
However, I think you make a good point about Piper acknowledging the competence of women more broadly than what I allowed. Shortly after posting this article, I read another in which Piper says that pastors are permitted to use Bible commentaries written by women without violating biblical norms for authority. This underscores your point about women having an intelligent contribution to make (as long as it's not in the pulpit or the classroom or some other authoritative venue). For him it seems that the difference lies in the articulation of theology in a context of authority. So, to extend to another example, I think blogging would fall in the category of "acceptable" for women (in principle) because no man is being forced to read it. But the same message from the pulpit on Sunday would not be allowed.
To your second point, unfortunately, Yes, Piper did say that Christianity is essentially masculine. You can click on the link in my post above to read an (older) discussion of his view, which I find deeply problematic.
I maintain my view that having a woman at the podium calls into question the assumption that women have nothing to offer. Piper may not hold this "ill-formed assumption," but it remains an unfortunate consequence of his theology in practice. Most people have a hard time imagining what they have not seen. If a woman can write a Bible commentary but only a qualified man can teach the same material from the pulpit, the congregation is unlikely to associate that teaching with a woman. It would reinforce the unfortunate stereotype that men are smarter (or more reliable, etc.) and have more to offer.
My statement about women's limited usefulness beyond the kitchen and the bedroom was made in the context of my discussion of the developing world, where that stereotype continues to thrive. I am not suggesting that John Piper holds this view, but I'm happy for this opportunity to clarify.
I do not disagree with everything John Piper says. I respect him as someone who has labored long to serve the church. I agree that "God is most glorified when we are most satisfied in him."
Thank you for taking the time to read and respond to my post. My sense is that the firestorm of attention caused by Piper's recent comments has fostered meaningful conversation around the world. One example is a post on Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary's Blog, where the (Complementarian female) author argues that seminaries train more than just pastors -- counselors, missionaries, youth workers, etc. -- so Piper's argument falters here. (I think he would still say that when a woman teaches men on any subject it goes against the grain of how God designed gender relations to function, but that's another matter). In any case, I've been encouraged by the vigorous discussion over the past week.
Thanks again for engaging in conversation.
Blessings!
Thank you for your work, Carmen. I do love your first name :) It seems since the Garden in Eden, we are forever learning REVERENCE of ADONAI by pulling His Chesed into and over our 'truth'. There's an essential reason why Kingdom 'chesed' is always mentioned before 'emet' in the Tanakh. Again, thank you for all your hours of work - both inside and outside of your home! - from one Mom to another Baruch HaSHEM!
ReplyDeleteThank you, Carmen! Blessings!
DeleteThank you for your comments, they come at a time for me when I am still reeling from and conflicted by John MacArthur's statement several months ago to Beth Moore to "Go home," and the ensuing defenses and explanations offered by him and much of the reformed crowd of which I associated with. I just don't find this consistent with godly character, brotherly love and as or more importantly, the image and character of God our Savior as I come to understand him more. I am running far far away from the hostility and legalism that has become so prevalent in my reformed circles and thanking God for opening up the doors to learn from those who understand being an image bearer. I can't wait to read your book! Blessings from Battle Ground WA.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear that John MacArthur's statement caused you personal pain, but glad that you are finding life elsewhere. I hope you find 'Bearing God's Name' to be a breath of fresh air! I'm hoping to write a sequel that will touch on gender relations, among other things.
Delete